Indian Home Minister LK Advani sat down to talk to Q&A on Thursday.
I asked him, what's the minimum India wants to hear from the speech Pakistan's
president Pervez Musharraf will make this weekend.
LK Advani, Home Minister, India: It's not a question of minimum. It's
more a question of reassuring us -- and when I say us, I mean not only the
government of India, but also the people of India -- that Pakistan has abandoned
the use of terrorism as an instrument of state policy.
Whatever be the cause, basically nations have to agree, particularly after the
11th of September, the 13th of December, that no nation, no government, would
use terrorism as an instrument of state policy.
Verjee : But Pakistan has taken some tangible moves towards reassuring
India and the rest of the world of its commitment to fight terrorism. I mean,
the leaders of Jaish-e-Mohammed and Lashkar-e-Tayyiba were arrested. Many other
militants were also arrested, in the hundreds. And offices were closed down,
accounts were frozen.
Why isn't this enough?
Advani : These moves have been taken, and to the extent that they have been
taken, we official said it is a move in the right direction.
But, frankly, when we look at the entire approach of Pakistan, even after
September 11th, we do not feel convinced that these moves are substantial. They
are essentially tactical moves.
Verjee : So what do you want Pakistan to do?
Advani : As put out yesterday in my press conference, firstly, I would like
Pakistan to abandon helping terrorists in either finance or in arms or in
enabling them to go across the line of control into India. All these measures
have to be taken, apart from handing over the 20 terrorists who have committed
acts of terrorism in India and who have been given asylum in Pakistan.
Verjee : Well, first of all, it has to be said that Pakistan denies financing and
supporting these militant groups that cross the line of control.
And as for the 20 militants that you're referring to, Pakistan says that there
is no extradition treaty between the two countries, so how can you request these
20 militants in the first place?
Advani : So far as denial is concerned, I remember earlier Pakistani leaders
denying having anything to do with what all happened in India. But lately, after
Gen. Musharraf came into office, after that his public stand has been, when he
came to Agra (ph), or only recently when he visited Katmandu for the SAARC
meeting, his stand has been that what is happening in Jammu and Kashmir is not
at all terrorism, it is a freedom struggle of the people of Jammu and Kashmir.
And so he has not denied assisting them. He's said that yes, it's my duty to see
that that struggle for independence...
Verjee : Well, Pakistan's position has always been that of morally supporting
them. And that's it, they say.
Advani : Not morally supporting them. I can say that not a single person can come
across the line of control, but in the last years and in fact even in the last
three or four months, every months we have a couple of hundred crossing across,
because this is not possible without the Pakistan government facilitating it.
And therefore, we have said that this must stop.
Verjee : You're asking Pakistan for a lot. Isn't it about time the Indian
government started looking inwards and asking itself what it can do, and whether
it was prepared to address the grievances, for instances, of the Kashmiri
people, rather than blaming everything that happens in Kashmir on Pakistan?
Advani : People should know that there was a time when it was people of Jammu and
Kashmir who used to go over to Pakistan, get training, get arms, get finance,
and come back here to indulge in all kinds of activities. That's no longer so.
Nowadays, it is people from Pakistan, people from Afghanistan, people from some
other Islamic countries, drawn in by the appeal of jihad, who come as
mercenaries into Jammu and Kashmir.
Verjee : No, hold on. My question, though, is, what is India prepared to do to
address the grievances of the Kashmiri people and bring them back into the fold,
rather than saying it's all Pakistan's fault?
Advani : So far as the Kashmiri people are concerned, in fact so far as the
people of India are concerned, it is the duty of every government to see that
their legitimate grievances are removed. And that continues as an act of
government. And I can say that the present government has been consciously doing
its duty in that regard.
Even in respect of Kashmir, we have appointed a senior official of the cabinet
rank, Shcasy Pundt (ph), to talk to various groups in Jammu and Kashmir and to
address the grievances that they have.
Verjee : Consciously doing its duty, there are a lot of critics that would differ
with that. They talk about human rights abuses in Kashmir, corruption in
elections. The Kashmiri people being caught between the cross-fire between the
insurgence and the Indian security forces. I mean, their lives, the average
Kashmiri person, is no better because India has been unimaginative in the way it
has dealt with the Kashmiri people, your critics would say.
Advani : Which country in the world, particularly in the developing world,
doesn't have problems of this kind? And we address them as honestly and
sincerely as we can.
But that cannot be a justification for the killing of innocent people, as
happens when terrorists come across the line and start bombing people, start
derailing trains, and do all kinds of things.
And things reach a point which I describe as crossing the (UNINTELLIGIBLE),
crossing the threshold where even Indian parliament is attacked by these people.
And it is this 13th of December incident that has made India think in terms of a
different response than it has until now.
Verjee : And it's that 13th of December incident that has also ratcheted up the
rhetoric in India and the concern that you could become a victim of your own
rhetoric.
For instance, you know, saying one more time, if this happens, we're going to
have to do something about it, and if something does happen, the onus is on you,
or there is immense pressure on the Indian government, to do something about it,
which is an enormously dangerous position to put yourself in.
Advani : I'm sorry if anyone describes this as rhetoric, and the Prime Minister
Vajpayee has not at all used rhetoric. He is a person who has been patiently
seeing all that has been happening, and he is a person who had to say after the
13th of December that now our patience has been exhausted.
Verjee : OK, but what happens if there is another attack? What happens if an
outraged Kashmir peasant picks up a Kalashnikov and shoots an Indian politician?
Are you going to blame it on Pakistan or -- I mean, that's Pakistan's concern,
that anything that's going to happen now, India is going to jump on it and point
the finger immediately at Pakistan.
Can you reassure the Pakistani government that that's not the case?
Advani : Zain, these are hypothetical questions. Lately, I haven't seen Indian
people belonging to Jammu and Kashmir, or to any part of India, indulging in
this kind of activity. It is people who have been either sent from across the
border of activated by different motives who have been doing it.
It is significant that all of the five terrorists who attacked Parliament House,
all were Pakistanis.
Verjee : Is the real reason that India is, as has been described in many
editorials, sabre-rattling and building up troops on the Pakistani border really
to gain favor in advance of a very important election that will be coming up,
the Uttar Pradesh state elections, and you need those votes, and this could be
one way of getting them.
Advani : I'm a person who is a member of the government, and I would describe any
government which thinks in terms of elections while deciding momentous issues of
this kind as an irresponsible government.
And I can tell you that thinking of how to deal with terrorism, as for example
to have a law like (UNINTELLIGIBLE); we thought of it 1 1/2 years back, even
that is attributed to the Utti (ph) elections. It is unfortunately.
And therefore, all I can say is elections do not figure in every single decision
that we have been taking in respect of terrorism.
Verjee : You've poignantly made your arguments and criticisms of Pakistan, but I
really want to know from you, Mr. Advani , rather than throwing the ball in
Pakistan's court, what is the Indian government going to do itself?
Advani : Whatever we need to do to address the legitimate grievances of Jammu and
Kashmir, we are doing and we are determined to pursue that path.
Verjee : But, do what? Be specific. This is just broad stuff. Give me specifics.
Advani : Including holding free and fair elections in Jammu and Kashmir.
Verjee : Are you willing to pull out 6,000 or 7,000 [the figures sure
seem interesting - ed] security forces in Kashmir
that tighten the noose, so to speak, around Pakistan? Why don't you pull them
out? That could be one way of diffusing things.
Advani : Pull out the security forces? In this situation?
Verjee : Pull out some of them.
Advani : In a situation where the people in Gurdaspur (ph), the people in Rajouri,
the people in Punj are repeating again and again that we send our paramilitary
forces for their protection.
Verjee : You're building up troops, building the security forces, putting
pressure on Pakistan that, if you push Musharraf too hard, there's a concern
that he could be toppled and then India will have another problem to deal with.
Advani : I do not think that these apprehensions are correct, basically because
when Gen. Musharraf decided to join hands with the United States in its fight
against international terrorism, the first and foremost pressure that came upon
him was to abandon the Taliban. And which I feel was the most difficult task
entrusted to him. And he did it, and has nevertheless survived thereafter.
I do not see why, in his fight against terrorism, he should see terrorism only
on the West, not on the East. Terrorism is terrorism, and one terrorism is not
good terrorism, because it is in Jammu and Kashmir, and another terrorism is bad
because it is in Taliban.
(Courtesy: CNN)
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